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darlingg
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by darlingg » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:55 pm

As of my previous post, data.zip should now be included at that same https://app.box.com/s/w38r1cefogdgc26n27kpu3h4sy99uv8d .

I wonder if the present issue comes from installing the very latest sfall (except for ddraw.ini) on top of FO2Tweaks etc, as per my post December 15? Or, from continuing play from the saves previous installs, instead of restarting each time at the Temple of Trials?

Everything else seems OK, except I didn't expect to be seeing better % chance to hit with a Combat Shotgun than Scoped Rifle; but maybe that's just the vanilla game?

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Magus
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by Magus » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:51 pm

Right, so apparently EcCo bundles ammo protos with it and that overrides vanilla.
ammo
ammo
Sfall has nothing to do with it.
You'll need to edit fo2tweaks.ini to and uncomment optional ammo settings, like here: https://github.com/BGforgeNet/FO2tweaks ... s.ini#L185

Scoped rifle has reduced change to hit at close distance in vanilla game. It's better at long range. Maybe you're hitting this use case?
There's a component in FO2tweaks to alter that, too: https://github.com/BGforgeNet/FO2tweaks ... ed-weapons
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darlingg
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by darlingg » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:10 pm

Thanks again!

I uncommented as you instructed. Values for representative ammo types in Inventory now read:

(AC Mod, DT Mod (sic), Dmg Mod) = 10 mm JHP (10,35,27/20); 10 mm AP (-10,-35, 13/20); .44 Magnum JHP (10,35,27/20); .44 Magnum FMJ (0,5,21/20)

The first 3 sets of values now make more sense, if one assumes that "DT Mod" is a typo for "DR Mod". The fourth still doesn't seem to jibe, and I note there's no setting  for .44 Magnum FMJ in FO2Tweaks. Nor for .45 caliber either, I see.

I'll test Scoped Rifle with various settings and ammos later. The Combat Shotgun has the Weapons Accurate perk (even for slug ammo?), so maybe that was part of it.

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Magus
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by Magus » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:28 pm

"DR mod" was swapped for "DT mod" by YAAM shipped with EcCo. You can search data/text/english/game/proto.msg for this string and replace it manually.

The section with ammo doesn't have all of them, as they are mostly good by default. But with EcCo, they aren't anymore. So I'll probably have to add all ammunition to the ini, to avoid any ambiguities. Although I don't like it much, as the config is long enough already.

The section itself is just mapping of PIDs to DR mods. List of PIDs is here: https://github.com/BGforgeNet/Fallout2_ ... pid.h#L181. You can add any missing item, and experiment with ammo properties in general.
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darlingg
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by darlingg » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:44 pm

Okay, I'll do all that and let you know of any other problems or issues.

I'm gratified that this exchange is not just solving my problems, but helping to improve your mod for everyone.

Enough people seem to use EcCo, and enough plain RP, that it would be wise for FO2Tweaks to work on top of either, and with install instructions for each.

If I understand correctly, those who want to turn off your own damage formula in favor of EcCo's should also comment out every line in the section "; Ammo added by mods  ; EcCo"?

My characters are in New Reno right now, and Sulik is using a grease gun, so .45 caliber is relevant.

Possibly all ammo that is JHP could be defined in one command, and the same for AP and FMJ, then just set DR Mod for each group (I take it EcCo does not touch AC Mod?), which would make for fewer such adjustments and lines overall?

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Magus
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by Magus » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:45 pm

darlingg wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:44 pm
If I understand correctly, those who want to turn off your own damage formula in favor of EcCo's should also comment out every line in the section "; Ammo added by mods  ; EcCo"?
No, the entire component can be turned off in the main section, by setting damage_mod = 0. The lower section is just fine tuning.

Ammo can be grouped, but
  1. That's less flexible (obviously), in case someone want to fine tune it.
  2. In original game, all AP and JHP do not necessarily have the same DR mod. For example 10mm JHP has +25% DR, while 5mm JHP has +35%. And in case of damage mod component, the idea is to change as little as possible.
  3. Even in vanilla, there are more ammo types than just AP/JHP: caseless, needler, bb's. And EcCo adds even more: slugs, buckshots, incinerating, BMG...
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darlingg
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by darlingg » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:28 am

OK. I myself don't mind a few more lines with your default values, especially if they can be ignored by most users, and a single command switches the whole thing on and off. Thanks again.

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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by Magus » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:49 am

I went another way: hardcoded DR values into script, leaving an option to change them in the ini.
Try the attached script, drop it into data/scripts. That should provide good values even with "damage_mod_ammo_dr" section empty.
Attachments
gl_g_damage_mod.int.zip
(4.66 KiB) Downloaded 30 times
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darlingg
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by darlingg » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:25 am

With DT -> DR in data/text/english/game/proto.msg , gl_g_damage_mod.int installed into mods/scripts, ddraw.ini setting of DamageFormula=0, and mods/FO2Tweaks setting damage_mod=1 and everything under [damage_mod_ammo_dr] commented out (including "; required changes" and "; Ammo added by mods  ; EcCo" ?), inventory descriptions of selected ammo now reads:

(AC Mod, DR Mod, Dmg Mod) = 10 mm JHP (10, 25, 5/4); 10 mm AP (-10,-25, 3/4); .44 Magnum JHP (10,20,6/5); .44 Magnum FMJ (0,-20,4/5), which all seem to make sense.

Incidentally, on the topic of FO2Tweaks working with EcCo: as noted above, EcCo/YAAM seems to change certain ammo DT Mod & Dmg Mod values from vanilla, along with some other values of weapon damage and burst size, presumably all fitting together in its own new balance. Does FO2Tweaks translate these changes when they occur, or just apply one set of ammo DT Mod & Dmg Mod, EcCo or no EcCo?

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Magus
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Re: FO2 + RP + EcCo + FO2Tweaks

Post by Magus » Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:10 am

darlingg wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:25 am
Does FO2Tweaks translate these changes when they occur, or just apply one set of ammo DT Mod & Dmg Mod, EcCo or no EcCo?
The latter. (Well, now, with the script I just posted.)

"Translation" of the changes is what got you
darlingg wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:42 am
(AC Mod, DT Mod, Dmg Mod) = 10 mm JHP (0,0,1/1); 10 mm AP (0,4,26/25); .44 Magnum JHP (0,0,1/1); .44 Magnum FMJ (0,5,21/20).
Obviously, it doesn't work well, and it really can't work well. Because EcCo simply uses YAAM ammo, which isn't "balanced" in FO2tweaks sense. Meaning that it's just some unrelated numbers.
While FO2tweaks damage mod describes ammo with a universal parameter: you either improve damage, costing you penetration, or vice versa.
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